Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/08/Category:Parts of a day

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Category:Parts of a day

Propose that this category be moved to "Category:Time of day" to match the corresponding Wikidata item and more importantly, because "time of day" is the term commonly used in English. This category was originally created by what appears to be a non-native speaker of English in Italy. DanielPenfield (talk) 18:32, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

@DanielPenfield: I'm also not very perfect in English, but I think the current category name is a bit broader in meaning than the one you suggest. While "night", "noon" or "blue hour" are really "time of day", a hour, minute or second are not "time of day" but rather "parts of a day"(e.g. 1⁄24 of a day), as units of time. But it is true that this overlap is represented only by a very small part of the content of the category. --ŠJů (talk) 15:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Comment Actually, Category:Second may or may not be "part of a day" depending on the context. As I'm sure you're aware, in Physics and Astronomy, seconds appear in many places independent of Earth or of any planet. Furthermore, Category:Second (sic) and Category:Minute (sic) (which both flout the convention that categories be expressed in the plural) were added by a different editor a full year after the "Parts of a day" category was created. When you state that "current category name is a bit broader", you're presuming that the category is actually useful and well thought-out. Is it actually useful to group Category:Seconds, Category:Minutes, Category:Hours with morning, afternoon, evening, and night? As a native English speaker, I'd say you should avoid WP:MADEUP categories as much as possible and place Category:Seconds, Category:Minutes, Category:Hours in a category called Category:Units of time and Category:Morning, Category:Afternoon, Category:Evening, and Category:Night in a category called Category:Time of day which is the decomposition expressed on Wikidata, by the way. I know as a native English speaker, if I were to walk up to a stranger in Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, the United States, etc. and ask "What part of the day is it right now?", I'd get some strange looks because "part of a day" is 100% WP:MADEUP. In fact, I'd expect to be able to search Commons for both terms (namely, "Time of day" and "Time units"), and insanely enough Commons search returns 100% WP:MADEUP categories for both. And what about contradictions posed by the subcategories? For example Category:Moment of silence appears in Category:Minute, but it's not "part of a day". Category:Kilometres per hour, Category:Miles per hour, Category:Hourglasses, Category:24 hours, Category:24-hour periods, Category:Maps of Hours all appear in Category:Hours, but they're not "parts of a day". A separate editor came along a year after the ill-conceived category was created and decided to mix time units with "parts of a day" and you're going to treat them as if they're somehow 1) going to be recognized outside of Commons in place of the longstanding terms and 2) actually be something people search for on Commons? Finally, as stilted as the WP:MADEUP term "parts of a day" sounds, it gets even worse with the country-specific "parts of a day" found in Category:Parts of a day by country. Category:Parts of a day in the United States sounds like a kindergartener made it up. -- DanielPenfield (talk) 21:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

 Keep broader in meaning. The wikidata-item could also be renamed in "Parts of a day" and <-- --> Also known as "time of day". Then it would be corresponding. -- Triple C 85 ^{| User talk |} 08:53, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Question Why do you prefer a WP:MADEUP name that only exists on Commons in preference to the longstanding term "time of day" that matches not only Wikidata, but the English translations of the German Wikipedia, the Japanese Wikipedia, and Russian Wikipedia articles? Even the definition the creator gave the category is problematic: "Subdivisions of daytime" means "Subdivisions of the time during which there is daylight." Why do you prefer a category that has received no scrutiny in its 15 years of existence to Wikidata topics which are endlessly debated before being finalized and thus are higher quality? Why would you imperiously require other projects to bend to Wikicommons? Why do you assume that Commons is the authority in all matters? Furthermore this category looks like a case of The blind leading the blind, where an anonymous non-native English speaker created a category based on his or her limited knowledge, assuming that someone would come along in the future to correct it if it was off, and the next 15 years consisted of editors slowly adding categories to it as if it were somehow a well-though out non-reinvented wheel. -- DanielPenfield (talk) 20:48, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

DanielPenfield (talk · contribs) Undoubtedly, the categories here should be divided into two groups: "Time of day" and something like "Time units of a day". Either they can be named in such a way that one of them can be a subcategory of the other, or they could both be parallel in one overarching category. The choice of solution depends, among other things, on the fact that interwiki links and wikidata items can be revised correctly. If there is an interwiki conflict to be resolved on Wikidata that you would not know how to deal with yourself, it is possible to open a discussion about it on Wikidata. However, such discussions are usually endless and pointless. However, spliting the content of this Commons category into two subcategories can be done immediately, and I don't see any major controversy. --ŠJů (talk) 04:39, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

@DanielPenfield: I  Support renaming this category to Times of day (plural name in order to be consistent with COM:CAT). Spans of time already exists and can be used for small time units like Second, Minute and Hours. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 12:10, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

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Renamed Parts of a day to Times of day per consensus and COM:CAT. --Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 06:59, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Consensus to rename Parts of a day to Time of day per consensus. --Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:09, 19 January 2024 (UTC)