Commons:Categories for discussion/2020/02/Category:Requested moves (Donbass)

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This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Requested moves (Donbass)[edit]

we probably should avoid creating category for concrete subjects, like Donbass, Germany, France, Japan (category:Requested moves (Japan)). For these geographical entities there should be only containter category:Requested moves (geography). Otherwise we have there (=category:Requested moves) hundreds 1-3 member categories Estopedist1 (talk) 07:52, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Estopedist1: Generally, this type of grouping requests is intended to group requests which require specific discussion and solution. The categories should be as specific as specific are the problems. E.g. category:Requested moves (Japan) requires participation of users who are familiar with Japan language nad writing. Category:Requested moves (Donbass) grouped names who have the specific language and political problem of a specific area, which has nothing to do with Germany or France, and should be discussed primarily by local users who know local situation, who create local categories and contribute with local photos. However, as the specific problem is resolved and the category emptied, the category can be deleted. Generally, as soon as more requests based on similar or identical problem occur, then is useful to group them together. In case of Japan or Donbass names, we have no problem with geographic problems or basic geographic naming principles but with specific lokal language and/or political problem. Other specific problem are names of categories for churches, which are not internationally unified and which often ignore the principle to name categories in English. Etc. Naturally, this way of grouping is useful only if it is used by intelligent people who are able to use it meaningfully, not formally and to be an end in itself. It requires an intellect to identify the core of the rename request. --ŠJů (talk) 09:33, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@ŠJů: yep. But to get involved people, who know the topic in question (eg Taxons, Japan, Chinese language), it is probable best to use Category:WikiProjects. I also noted that in enwiki there is all put together, see en:Category:Requested moves and in enwiki the concrete request is probable related to somehow concrete WikiProject/Portal--Estopedist1 (talk) 11:33, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Estopedist1: Yes, any specific renaming problem of a group of requests can be discussed at any suitable WikiProject or Wikiprojects. The page of the special maintenance category for such requests is usable to include a link to a related discussion at such a Wikiproject (if exist such a WikiProject), and can be linked from the Wikiproject. How else would the project participants come to know that there is a problem with some rename requests that they could help with? Thank you for an excellent example of how these categories can be useful.--ŠJů (talk) 21:42, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Delete we don't separate move request categories for regions and maybe not even countries, the general one seems fine. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:37, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    If this one category is empty, it can be deleted now. As soon as some other set of requests with their common core problem will appear, some other maintenance keyword and category can be created to group them. Such maintenance categories are used for group similar requests which require to be discussed together or which require attention of special expertness. Naturally, such sorting tags are intended to be used by those users who really work on processing requests. Who doesn't need to use them, doesn't need to notice them.--ŠJů (talk) 21:42, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Turelio, ŠJů, Crouch, Swale, and Joshbaumgartner: for simplicity and per enwiki en:Category:Requested moves I suggest this category tree:
  1. Category:Requested moves (all) = OK (container cat to hold all "Requested moves")
  2. Category:Requested moves (new) = OK
  3. Category:Requested moves (7+ days) = OK
  4. Category:Requested moves (14+ days) = OK
  5. Category:Requested moves (21+ days) = OK
  6. Category:Requested moves (50+ days) = OK
  7. Category:Requested moves (date undefined) = OK
  8. Category:Requested moves (no name suggested) = to be deleted (seems to be helpful)
  9. Category:Requested moves with target = to be deleted (seems to be helpful)
  10. Category:Requested moves (ambiguity) = to be deleted, specific case to be provided with cat:WikiProject:Disambiguation, eg see category:Tours
  11. Category:Requested moves (Chinese) = to be deleted, specific case to be provided with cat:WikiProject:China
  12. Category:Requested moves (church) = to be deleted, specific case to be provided with cat:WikiProject:Religion and related country, eg see category:Saints Martin and Benedict Church (Pegli)
  13. Category:Requested moves (declined) = to be deleted
  14. Category:Requested moves (Donbass) = to be deleted, specific case to be provided with cat:WikiProject:Russia and Ukraine
  15. Category:Requested moves (Japan) = to be deleted, specific case to be provided with cat:WikiProject:Japan
  16. Category:Requested moves (language) = to be deleted, specific case to be provided with cat:WikiProject:Lingustics
  17. Category:Requested moves (no group) = to be deleted
  18. Category:Requested moves (resemblance) = to be deleted
  19. Category:Requested moves (taxon) = to be deleted, specific case to be provided with cat:WikiProject:Biology and/or Tree of Life

--Estopedist1 (talk) 08:20, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know how to explain to the less endowed that maintenance categories are intended to serve maintenance. Don't try to destroy what works (and what you are not able to understand), and try rather to solve what doesn't work.
* Category:Requested moves (no name suggested) groups requests which lack the target name. Undoubtedly a specific group of proposals that requires specific assessment and intervention. Absolutely destructive and stupid idea to delete this category.
* Category:Requested moves with target groups requests, that target page is existing. Ie. such requests are really merge requests, or the categories and their content are moved already and only the abandoned original category needs to be treated. And pages which are moved already but the move template was forget there. Very useful and used category for maintenance. Bad idea to delete this category
* Purpose od the others listed categories were explained here repeatedly. Those that are not used and are unlikely to be needed can be deleted, others can be flexibly created as needed. These categories fully respect principle of simplicity: simply group requests by a keyword used in the template. It is a very simple, understandable and practical system for organizing maintenance work on requests. The fact that no one has systematically used this possibility in recent months is not yet a reason for disposing of this simple, proven and practical option.
* Your idea to link thematic groups of requests with specific WikiProjects can be useful, but such an idea doesn't implies a need to destroy this simple, practical and universal system which enable to group requests by whichever keyword. If such a group of proposals is to be brought to the attention of a specific WikiProject and at the same, request maintanenacers are to be referred to the discussion in wikiproject, it is necessary to group such proposals somewhere, ie to use the simple system you are trying to destroy.
* To replace grouping of reqests by keyword with categorization to existing categories of WikiProjects is a bad idea. Such groups of reqeusts would be not foundable in the category tree of reqeusts to be maintaned. In the WikiProject categories, rename requests would be mixed with other content of the WikiProject. Apparently, the proposer did not understand how the handling of renaming requests works or how the wikiprojects work. --ŠJů (talk) 11:45, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
thanks, some improvements implemented--Estopedist1 (talk) 15:59, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
is category:WikiProject Japan--Estopedist1 (talk) 13:23, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's a category intended for media related to specific WikiProject of en:wiki, not a wikiproject of Wikimedia Commons for its processes. --ŠJů (talk) 13:52, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ŠJů and Crouch, Swale: new ideas. It may be also good idea that if the concrete case falls into "cat:Requested moves (14+ days)" (very likely it means that tough one) then we change "requested move" to CFD to get more people involved. And in future it is inevitable to bind CFDs with suitable WikiProjects to involve more people, especially experts. So, we probably do not need topical and randomly named "Requested moves" (eg cat:Requested moves (Chinese)).--Estopedist1 (talk) 13:23, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Estopedist1: If you would deal with hundreds and tens of rename request, you discover, that it is useful and practical to group them by their naming problem, or by phase of the solving process atd. Some such groups appear at once as a request wave, some specific problems occur repeatedly and typically.

Otherwise there is no need to discover the discovered. The basic principles of handling the renaming requests have long been formulated and used. It is not wanted to replace individual and sensitive treatment of requests with an obtuse application of some mechanical principle. Every discussion has its evolution and progress and it is up to intelligent consideration when it is better to continue the discussion here and when it is necessary to transfer it to CfD. If there is an unconvincing and ill-reasoned request ist left hanging for a long time, it is not such a mistake as if an urgent request to deal with a real error or problem is not handled in time. Anyway, we rather need more of intelligent people capable of solving designs wisely and thoughtfully than someone who is trying to demolish a working system before he even understand it. --ŠJů (talk) 13:49, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Stale discussion. @ŠJů: Yes, I have solved hundreds and hundreds of rename requests. In recent days, I cleaned up 100+ requested moves at Category:Requested moves (50+ days) (difficult ones are changed to CFD), and I don't see any need for categories like Category:Requested moves (Chinese). So I propose again to delete all these topical categories to easify and cleanup our requested moving system:

--Estopedist1 (talk) 22:12, 10 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Last remaining requested moves categories ("Category:Requested moves (no group)" and "Category:Requested moves (other)") to be deleted, and then we can close this CFD Estopedist1 (talk) 13:22, 13 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done: except for Category:Requested moves (other), which is in use by {{Move other}}, and is not used for category moves. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 20:44, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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