Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/07/Category:Parking ticket machines

This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Parking ticket machines

What is the difference between Category:Parking ticket machines and Category:Pay and display? Can these two categories be merged OR can clear descriptions be added? JopkeB (talk) 06:16, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

@JopkeB: Both categories seem to be about the same topic. Unfortunately, the article en:Pay and display does not explain where this name came from and how widespread it is. This term appears to be only local (in the US and few other countries) and difficult to understand in a global context. I would say that the term "pay and display" (without the word "machines") refers more to that payment system, not specifically to the machines that are used to make the payment. The name "Parking ticket machines" seems to be more descriptive and understandable in the international context. Btw., the interwikis are not consistent – some linked articles are about the parking ticket machines, some about the payment system and some about paid parking lots in general. --ŠJů (talk) 06:39, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

"Parking ticket machines" and "Parking tickets" can be subcategories of "Pay and display". Something like "Pay and display parking signs" can be a third subcategory. All photos should be moved down to appropriate subcategories. --ŠJů (talk) 06:51, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Are all parking tickets everywhere pay and display though? --Adamant1 (talk) 01:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

No, there are also parking facilities where you do not have to display a parking ticket on the dashboard or windscreen. For instance at Car parks behind a barrier and in Parking buildings‎ for cars, where you have to get a ticket to open the barrier or to get into the parking building, and where you pay right away (when there is a fixed fee) or pay when you leave. But you cannot always see on a photo of a parking ticet machine whether you have to display your parking ticket on the windscreen or not. And I agree that "Parking ticket machines" is better understandable in the international context. My proposal for the category structure is:

1. Paid parking
   1. Parking meters - only for the old fashion ones which are next to each parked car/parking lot, in which you have to insert coins or pay with a payment card and then it shows how much parking time is left, but you usually do not get a ticket
   2. Parking ticket machines - ticket machines to get a parking ticket for your vehicle; you may have to display the parking ticket in the vehicle or not, you may have to pay in advance or when you leave the parking facility
      1. Parking ticket machines for pay and display
      2. Parking tickets
         1. Parking tickets for pay and display
   3. Pay and display
      1. Parking ticket machines for pay and display
         1. Parking tickets for pay and display
   4. Signs for paid parking

@ŠJů and Adamant1: How do you think about this proposal? JopkeB (talk) 03:44, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

@JopkeB: Generally, parking ticket machines and parking tickets are intended for "pay and display" in principle. If somewhere is no obligation to display the ticket in the vehicle, we cannot tell it from the photo of the machine or the ticket, i.e. it is an unusable criterion for categorizing photos. Some parking machines issue two tickets (or two-part tickets) at the same time - one to display in the vehicle and the second as a duplicate that the driver keeps with him, but the tickets are usually very similar. In order to cover both systems - displaying the ticket in the vehicle and return or presenting the ticket at the exit - it would be advisable to avoid the American term "pay and display" in category names. The ticket parking is specific by parking tickets, not by displaying the tickets just in the vehicle. The parking machines and parking tickets are basically the same, whether the tickets are intended for display in the vehicle, or for showing when exiting.

Signs for paid parking can be strictly distinguished to "parking meter signs" and "pay and display signs" (but there exist also many types of various "parking zone" signs which can combine more paid systems, including mobile payments, resident charges or specific free parking. "Pay and display" system can cover not only short-term parking with tickets from the machine, but also long-term paid parking, where the relevant ticket or card can be purchased in other ways. Some car parks combine both forms together.

There are other differences, for example paid parking without entrance and exit barriers and parking with barriers, or barriers controlled only by returning the parking ticket, and barriers controlled by the detection camera, and parking tickets are either anonymous or with the number plate indicated, but it is not yet necessary to distinguish these differences in categorization. Parking barriers, cameras etc. should be categorized independently of whether they serve paid parking, or non-public permit parking, limited free parking etc.

IMHO the current categorization structure of Category:Paid parking (as it was corrected recently) is convenient. It is possible to correct or further develop it, but there is no reason to propose a completely new structure. Your proposal is unnecessarily complicated.

Btw, "parking" in category names means an action or system, not a facility, this edit was incorrect. "Paid parking" should be subcategory of "Parking", not of "Parking facilities". For parking facilities we use names "car parks". If we have a subcategory of car parks for paid parking, such a subcategory could belong under "parking facilities". --ŠJů (talk) 04:52, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, ŠJů, for your comments.

• I agree with you that we should avoid the term "pay and display" in category names. It is not clear at a glance that this is about paid parking.
  • Solution: categories with this name should be renamed or merged into Category:Parking ticket machines.
  • I prefer merging, also considering, what you correctly stated, that we cannot tell from a photo of a parking ticket machine whether there is an obligation to display the ticket in the vehicle or not.
  • And then my proposal for a new category structure would be unnecessary as well.
• I agree that we should limit this discussion to parking machines and not worry any further about the systems (barriers, cameras, etc.), facilities and signs.

==>> Question (also for Adamant1 and anyone else): Do you agree that we should merge Category:Pay and display into Category:Parking ticket machines and rename Category:Pay and display by country‎ and its subcategories accordingly? JopkeB (talk) 04:35, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

I have to agree with ŠJů here that "pay and display" isn't a useful category name. That was actually why I asked the question about it originally. I just didn't have the time to elaborate on it when I made the comment and ŠJů beat me to the punch in the meantime. So if it were me I'd just merge everything currently contained in Category:Pay and display into Category:Parking ticket machines and either delete or redirect it. Although I'm more toward the former then the later. Otherwise there's someone who isn't aware of this conversation will just recreate it based on the existence of a Wikidata data entry and/or Wikipedia article. Same goes for the various "pay and display by country" categories. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:22, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Adamant1. So you prefer:

1. Merge files and subcategories currently in Category:Pay and display into Category:Parking ticket machines.
2. Delete Category:Pay and display (and rename subcategories starting with the same name and delete them as well).

Is that correct?

My comment:

1) Agree.

2) I think I prefer redirects, also for the reason you mention: then it is not possible to recreate them because they already exist and have a redirect. After this discussion has been closed, I'll mention this discussion in the talk page of both categories, so people can easily find our discussion. And of coarse I'll remove the category from the Wikidata item. JopkeB (talk) 15:07, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Sounds good. I don't really care if it's deleted or redirected. Although I don't want to see someone just re-create it if the name is clearly bad, but I guess it doesn't matter that much as long as it's removed from the Wikidata item. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:09, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

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This category discussion has been closed.
Consensus	Resolved by consensus
Actions	1) Merge Category:Pay and display into Category:Parking ticket machines. 2) Remove this category from the Wikidata item (Q574511). 3) Make a redirect for Category:Pay and display.  Done
Participants	ŠJů (talk · contribs) Adamant1 (talk · contribs)
Closed by	JopkeB (talk) 07:59, 31 August 2023 (UTC)